What does this remind you of?

[JoePublic1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xUD6rTbxoA

[antnee]

well it certainly doesn't look a bit like the lotto ads, not a bit!!! :-)

That original piece was done by an animator who took recordings of the radio show and animated them on his own initiative, eventually they got to Gervais and he loved them, they were on his website for a while.
Hopefully the creatives at least used the same guy.

[JoePublic1]

You would hope so! But I doubt it.

It seems like such a waste of an opportunity to create something new,
the Lotto are one of only a few irish accounts that actually push for creative and entertaining work.

Which agency did it?

[Baby Seal]

The agency that specialises in puppetry such as Lyons Tea, Dolmios etc.

[frambosenshmak]

the animators name is matt everitt and he's got quite a showreel of work behind him - domestos germs ad, kia cars, vodafone mayfly, etc.
says that he's currently working at framestore

you can see a reel of his work here:
http://www.me2films.com/

matt everitt bears:


brown bag lotto ads:


the worlds a small place. isnt there a saying that when you have a good idea you got to act on it quick as someone else is about to have thought of something similar. i guess thats how art movements get going....

[homer]

http://www.weloveallthisstuff.com/newstuff.htm

I see these Lotto ads were directed by Rory Bresnihan. He's the chap who did Guy's Dog, etc...The humour is right up his street.

I think it's good to see these ads staying in Ireland!

Hello there


I had an email conversation with people at Brown Bag (who created the lotto ads) about the very same thing.
A friend of mine was visiting their company and was told by one of their staff that they copied my Bears anims. I was told about this and after watching the ad (and falling off my chair) and emailed Brown Bag who of course denied that they would ever do such a thing and said that they could'nt see any similarities.

What can I do?
Not a lot.

It would've been great to have been approached by the agency to make these ads for them. I'm sure we could've come up with something cool.

I'd love to have a chat with the agency if anybody knows who did it?

Cheers

Matt Everitt.

[JimChimney]

The couldn't see the similarity? That's unbelievable! Here's the details from a link previously posted. Best of luck with it Matt, the bears stuff is top notch.


Title: Lotto, The Lads In LA
Directors: H2 Films - Keith Hutchinson,
BBF - Rory Bresnihan
Producers: H2 Films - Jack Armstrong,
BBF - Jackie Leonard
Agency: DDFH&B
Art Director: Ro Mahon
Copywriter: Gavin O'Sullivan
Agency Producer: Jenni O'Reilly
Account Director: Kathleen Mac Adam

[Idolikeanad]

I'm surprised they didn't approach you.

Although we Ad folk are, in general, cads and shits and proud of it, most of us would still prefer to go to the source when we "borrow" a style.

I wonder did Brown Bag "come up" with these characters and then present them to DDFH&B to fit their scripts.

Matt,


I'm actually shocked at DD's/Brown Bag. Blatant isn't it?

I want to echo all that's been said on this thread and I hope you get some recognition (if not a Brown Bag full of wonga) for what appears to be a pretty disgusting example of idea theft.

Originally Posted by matteveritt

Hello there


I had an email conversation with people at Brown Bag (who created the lotto ads) about the very same thing.
A friend of mine was visiting their company and was told by one of their staff that they copied my Bears anims. I was told about this and after watching the ad (and falling off my chair) and emailed Brown Bag who of course denied that they would ever do such a thing and said that they could'nt see any similarities.

What can I do?
Not a lot.

It would've been great to have been approached by the agency to make these ads for them. I'm sure we could've come up with something cool.

I'd love to have a chat with the agency if anybody knows who did it?

Cheers

Matt Everitt.

Matt,


I'm actually shocked at DD's/Brown Bag. Blatant isn't it?

I want to echo all that's been said on this thread and I hope you get some recognition (if not a Brown Bag full of wonga) for what appears to be a pretty disgusting example of idea theft.

Thanks for the comments.

I'm watching the Joel Veitch vs coke situation with interest. Go Joel, Go!


Matt.

[minikin]

can't see any similarity myself... i mean the accents are completely different & they have ear muffs rather than ears...

hate stuff like this... hey wahtya think of my latest creation?


matt, i fell off my chair with the laughing when i saw your work... genius

[Fireball Mudflap]

[JimChimney]

One would imagine Minikin was being tongue in cheek.

Demonstrating how one would "borrow" someone else's work.

[minikin]

eh... no.... just been paid loads to develop that identity for them... never seen that bp one b4 nor never nor nuthin, in anyways mines way betters, shat ap!

[::BAz::]

Originally Posted by Fireball Mudflap

Good Luck with your degree, me thinks you'll need it

[frambosenshmak]

Originally Posted by matteveritt

I'd love to have a chat with the agency if anybody knows who did it?

Cheers

Matt Everitt.

so did you get any response from the ad agency? and how did you happen across this forum discussion?

was looking at this piece matteveritt.com

and the comparable work
brownbagfilms.com

its the piece as a whole audio + video that makes similarities so evident. the mannerisms of the characters seem to be 'inspired' by those portrayed in matts animation of the xfm show clips. i actually happened upon the bears animation well before i saw the lotto ads when i was googling ricky gervais xfm show. my first reaction to the lotto ads was to think of where i'd seen the characters before... and boldly go in search of d'evidence.

ah well. best of luck.

[reason]

Originally Posted by Idolikeanad

I wonder did Brown Bag "come up" with these characters and then present them to DDFH&B to fit their scripts.

Not in this case no. I know two other post houses that pitched on it, the bears were a definite reference as part of the brief but no one wanted to directly rip them off. Any time different character designs were presented though, they kept being brought back to the bear designs by the agency - not sure if it was the agency themselves bringing it back or whether the clients were sold the bears and rejected anything different. Admittedly brown bag did an ad that's very similar to matt's work but if they didn't do it, someone else would have with the same results.

[mute]

Originally Posted by reason

but if they didn't do it, someone else would have with the same results.

oh, that's alright then... i'll definately quote you on that.!

"...so y'see your Honour, i only nicked it cos i thought someone else might... it's a terrible neighbourhood y'know.?!..."

[reason]

To be honest mute I didn't mean it as a defence of brown bag, it's more that I think regardless of what company ended up doing the job, they would have been pushed back towards the bears by the agency. What i meant is that matt's bears were ripped off a stage before the ads were made and there was no other way they were getting made. It's not too often an irish post house will turn down a job and I've only seen one job turned down for reasons of integrity and that wasn't based on anything creative. I think it's pretty damn lazy to rip off something so blatantly though.

[reason]

Originally Posted by waccachica

So why didn't they ask Matt to do it instead, rather than rob his idea, and shame themselves as a bunch of low life, idea robbing, creatively stunted thieves?

Yikes! That lies more with ddfh&b more than bb though.

I don't know any of the folks in brown bag so I haven't a clue what went on internally, I'm just going on what I know from elsewhere. Maybe they didn't have a problem with it at all, maybe there were budget reasons but yeah they should have gotten matt on board out of respect.

Originally Posted by waccachica

In all fairness it was a bad move, and makes them look weak and lost for inspiration and dishonest to boot.

It was a bad move admittedly and ideally companies should refuse to do this type of thing but irish companies don't turn down work that often. I'm not sure Inspiration comes into it here, if someone wants an exact thing, it's difficult enough to dissuade them. I'm not arguing on behalf of dd's / bb, it's more that a lot of things are said on the advertising forum without knowing any of the details under which the job was done.

[waccachica]

Sorry. Don't mean to hop on you, it just irks me that they would rob him of earning capacity from a brilliant idea he had, and created. It's just not right, even if it is common practice in your industry. The kudos should go where it belongs, with Matt.

[reason]

Absolutely - I work in print and had a thing I did for a christmas event ripped off by a very large company so it's a pain in the arse. I know a lot of folks working in post production and it seems to happen quite often that ideas proven internationally get re-sold and reused over here since there's less of a risk being taken. It's very bloody lazy...

[mute]

Originally Posted by reason

To be honest mute I didn't mean it as a defence of brown bag, it's more that I think regardless of what company ended up doing the job, they would have been pushed back towards the bears by the agency.

no worries.. i guessed that... i was picking up on the comment as a barometer to the state of an industry that seems to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing...

as it happens i do know some of the Brown Baggers, and im surprised if they knowingly ripped someone else's work...

design boards for motion projects frequently end up in the same 'ball-park', given specific client briefing.. i wonder if the same can be said for character development, etc..?

[PMC]

Well certainley character trends tend to pick up where many people are doing similear ones at a certain time

[mute]

Originally Posted by PMC

Well certainley character trends tend to pick up where many people are doing similear ones at a certain time

sure.. look at the vinyl toy trend at the moment..

same, same, same.

[PMC]

Exactly, (not that Im bitching Im totally influenced my that stuff).
Before that it was more pure manga, Pokenmon all that. Im sure something else will be the big thing soon. The key is to bring something of your own to the genre...

I'm currently talking to some entertainment lawyers to see if they think I have a case.
I'll let you know if anything ever gets resolved.

BIG props also need to go out to Matt Clark - www.matt-clark.co.uk who worked with me on all of the Bears episodes. I think to begin with he was more pissed off than I was and has been on at me for ages to get a lawyer involved.

Cheers

Matt.

[John O Connell]

Ah Matt worked on them? I don't know him in person but he's been kicking around the 3ds max world for ages - really good 3d artist.

[Bluesky]

Well i think this is a total disgrace. I lost all respect for brown bag - a companies who work I really admire. If they are not to blame then some else's head should role. I really hope it isn't down to them.

In my opinion this is stealing. Money is owed by someone.

[frambosenshmak]

Originally Posted by Bluesky

Well i think this is a total disgrace. I lost all respect for brown bag - a companies who work I really admire. If they are not to blame then some else's head should role. I really hope it isn't down to them.

In my opinion this is stealing. Money is owed by someone.

how can you say on one hand you've lost all respect for brownbag based on hear say on this forum and then the other use your "well ok if its not their fault blame someone else" routine?

yes it is awful that it appears someones work is being plagiarised so blatantly but since there has been no statement from the accused we'll have to wait and see what happens next. its been a concern of mine for some time the increasing lack of attention paid by advertising companies in trying to avoid copying other peoples work and passing it off as their own idea. Especially if its work that has clearly done the rounds in the public forum (XFM and Ricky Gervais arent exactly underground minority forums)

just because our physical location puts us on the fringe of europe doesnt mean people cant get caught for copying work even if it will only air on terrestrial tv and the general public may not have seen its lookalike online or in other countries.

I presume matt came across this lotto ad on the STASH magazine dvd series of which it is included and is itself a popular industry magazine for motion graphics and animation work. I think its a shame matt (and matt) work was not brought to the attention of STASH before they saw the Lotto ad.

This is an interesting link.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/...story11768.asp

Apparantly the contract for the Lotto is worth 20 million euros. Now i realise why they didn't come to us as we charge WAY more than that for our services

Matt.

[waccachica]

Nice to see you still have a sense of humour about it.
The best of luck with it and I really hope that you get what you deserve.