What is 'Oranje & Green' about?

It is about the links between Holland and Ireland in graphic design. It outlines the reasons why Dutch 'commercial artists' came here in the early '50s and traces the continuing exchange between our two very different design cultures. The story is told through the work of 8 designers who have been a significant part of this exchange as well as being significant people at certain points in my own career.

What first inspired you to write the book?

Having worked in Amsterdam during the early '80s, I had formed a picture of a very ordered, socially advanced Holland in my mind. Any stories I had heard about Ireland in the '50s spoke of a very bleak, impoverished place and I could never understand why the Dutch would want to come here in the first place.

What were the reasons for Dutch designers first coming to Ireland in the 1950's?

Well through my research I began to realise that Holland was not such a great place itself during the '50s. The country was still recovering from the War and there was a serious housing shortage. When Tim O'Neill of Sun Advertising went to visit KLM in 1950 in search of designers to help him with the publicity work for Aer Lingus he could offer not only a competitive salary but also the possibility of getting a decent house. His offer intrigued first Guus Melai and then Jan de Fouw. The rest is history.

What kind of effect did they have on the design/advertising scene of the day?

Many of them had been trained with Bauhaus principles and introduced the use of flat colours, sans serif typography and the grid. They also did unusual things like turn up on time for meetings, meet their deadlines and produce work of such a high standard that some would later remark that this work from the 1950s and '60s was probably 'the most notable graphic design ever produced in Ireland'

Who are some of the Dutch designers that were drawn to Ireland in the 1950 and onwards?

The key figures were Guus Melai, Jan de Fouw, Bert van Embden, Willem van Velzen, Gerrit van Gelderen, Piet Sluis, Cor Klaasen, Louis Pieterse, Piet Stroethof, Chris Vis, Nick van Vliet and later Guus Ros and Anton Mazer.

Are there many Dutch designers working in Ireland today?

I am not sure of the exact number, but there are quite a few Dutch still active in the creative arts generally in Ireland.

Why were Irish designers drawn towards The Netherlands as a base to work from?

Some of the younger contributors to Oranje & Green were at the launch of the book in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago and this question came up in conversation very late one night in the pub. David Smith, Gerard Fox, Declan and Garech Stone and Bob Gray, who has just finished a year at G2K Design, all concluded that Holland was a magnet for Irish designers who wanted to learn more. To work in a visual arts/design culture that has produced people from Vermeer to Van Gogh to Wim Crouwel and Gert Dumbar to studios like Koeweiden Postma and cutting edge agencies like Kesselskramer is a dream for young designers not just in Ireland but Worldwide.

Who are some of the Irish designers that were drawn to The Netherlands?

In addition to those mentioned above, Ciarán OGaora (DesignWorks) was also drawn to the design scene in The Netherlands. He worked for Proforma in Rotterdam during the early '90s.

Have many returned/remained in The Netherlands?

Most of those mentioned have returned and I am sure they will play a significant role in the future of Irish graphic design. The Stone Twins have stayed in Holland.

What is the essence of the Dutch graphic design ethic that is so attractive?

Max Bruinsma, the former editor of Eye, the international review of graphic design, summed it up best for me when he said 'it is this combination of analytical professionalism and artistic freedom that has led to a nickname for Dutch graphic design: "official anarchy".'

Does typography have an important part to play in defining Dutch graphic design's approach? How so?

As early as the 1920s organisations like N.V. Nederlandsche Kabelfabriek and the Dutch Post Office were attracted to the experimental typography of designers like Piet Zwart. His use of random lettering was influenced by the De Stijl movement and the Dada group. So Dutch industry has embraced good typography for most of the 20th century.

Humour and wit seems to play an important part in Dutch graphic design, with even big client work remaining quite playful, do you think that is something that is lacking in examples of Irish graphic design?

That's the 'official anarchy' bit coming through, even on the client side. Although humour and wit come naturally to us in the literary arts, it struggles to come through in our corporate design. All very polished and boring in a lot of cases. Having said that the Irish School of Motoring logo is a classic.

Gert Dumbar said we should 'build a statue to the client, not the designer' when it comes to creative design. Do you think Irish clients are learning to be as open to creative design as Dutch clients are?

Well no, I don't think anyone deserves a statue just yet. There's been a lot of rubbish produced lately. There have of course been exceptions like the museum identity by Ciarán OGaora, Peter Maybury's work for the Douglas Hyde Gallery and Susan Madigan's work at Design Factory for RKD Architects.

Graphic design in the Netherlands seems to play a very vital role in everything from banknote design to information design and signage. Do you think this is something lacking back in Ireland and the kind of projects design firms are involved in?

Well look at the fiasco with the signage in Dublin recently, taken down because nobody could understand it. How could something like that get so far? We don't seem to have the capacity to think things through in detail. We don't seem to be able to take the long term view. Clients are always in such a bloody rush. Effective design takes time. And proper fees.

Many Young Dutch/Irish designers in The Netherlands seem to be able to survive on smaller, arts/institutional led projects. Do you think this is something that is harder for Irish designers to do based in Ireland?

The arts in Ireland do not get anywhere near the funding that is acquired in The Netherlands. The budgets just do not compare, so it is a difficult sphere to survive in financially here.

There doesn't seem to be a strong tradition of design publications from books to magazines in Ireland. Do you think this is an issue that needs to be addressed?

Well as Lisa Godson said in her review of Oranje & Green in the Sunday Times 'the number of books on modern Irish design can be counted on the fingers of one hand'. Yes we need more.

Could Ireland ever produce a magazine such as 'Items' , 'Eye' or 'Creative Review' that would prove to be popular internationally?

Yes, I have no doubt we could. There is quite a lot going on now compared to when Design Factory started in 1983. It needs someone with a genuine passion for design and equal amounts of commercial acumen to get the job done.

Do you have any plans for future books on graphic design?

Yes I would like to do more books and keep up the good relationship I now have with BIS Publishers in Amsterdam. The future is bright, the future is Oranje!

Contact Details:
Conor.Clarke@designfactory.ie
www.designfactory.ie

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